Weekly Famitsu Interview with Katsura Hashino and Shigenori Soejima on Persona 3 (2006/09/29)
—The opening movie is impressive, isn’t it?
Katsura Hashino (Hashino): We hired an outside animation studio to create the opening movie, and we gave the animator a rather thick document of the general setting. I told them that I wanted them to depict the essential meaning of "Persona.” I didn't communicate directly with him, but when I saw the storyboards for the opening scene, I felt that he had went above and beyond what I originally had wanted.
Shigenori Soejima (Soejima): The interface that had already been created was very elaborate. Normally, the interface is not as elaborate because the priority is typically on the ease of functionality. But this time, we worked very hard on it. We couldn't let them down, so we decided to make the music and the opening pop out.
—The use of color is also very elaborate.
Soejima: That's right. When the animation director sent me the storyboards, they were surprisingly in full color. It was as if he had said he would never redo them again (laughs).
Hashino: Even in the opening scene, "Memento Mori" was written, even though we hadn’t asked for it to be included (laughs). The animators that worked on the opening took advantage of the setting and included it. We would never put something like that in (laughs). But we decided to go along with it and didn't dare change it.
“Shooting yourself in the head with an Evoker is not committing suicide.
It marks your resolve to accept that you can die at any time.”
—This time, you use a gun-shaped type of summoner to summon your Persona. Is it meant to be a meaningful gesture?
Hashino: I had felt that the youth of today would not be able to develop a Persona that would allow them to easily interact with others simply by being fired up.
I felt that they would have to rely on some kind of trigger to develop their power and exert their full potential. That’s why the summoning method was changed from the way it had worked six years ago.
From that point on, I considered the atmosphere of the Dark Hour that had been designed by Soejima as well as the general theme of this entry, and decided on it being represented by “pointing a gun to the head and pulling the trigger.” It is not meant to represent something negative such as a suicide, but rather, it’s a declaration that marks your resolve to accept that you can die at anytime.
Soejima: I had a lot of ideas for the type of image. I thought about how much energy it would take to summon the Persona, and eventually, I decided that it would be when I was faced with the choice between life and death.
Hashino: The Evoker doesn’t fire any bullets. And yet, I still struggled with whether or I was prepared or not. So, together with the staff, we tried to imagine shooting a prop gun with no bullets to the head. It was dangerous and something we should never do, but even though we knew the gun would not fire a bullet, the depiction of it instilled a certain sense of “fear.” (laughs).
“I wanted the Shadows to vaguely express the sense of anxiety in today’s youth.”
—What were the difficulties in designing a Persona for this game?
Soejima: To be honest, Kazuma Kaneko had drawn the previous entries in the series with a pretty unique sense of atmosphere, so I wasn't sure what I should do if I were to draw them myself. However, once I started drawing, the drawings came out at an unexpectedly rapid pace. The theme this time around was linked to Greek mythology, and I tried to make the overall theme as easy to understand as possible, so it was easy for me to draw.
—How did you feel about the designs for the Shadows?
Soejima: I was thinking about the Shadows in tandem with the image of Tartarus, but I wanted to make it seem as if their true form wasn’t entirely clear. It is rather different from the true meaning of what a shadow is, but the individuals living in the world of "Persona" are the most conscious of what others around them are thinking doing. As adults, we can to some extent separate ourselves from others, but the youth are usually anxious about how they are viewed or perceived. The concept of a Shadow was to vaguely express this sense of insecurity. There are some strange ones, such as those who take the form of professional wrestlers (laughs).
—The Shadows are meant to devour the souls of others instead of simply killing people. Where did you come up with that concept?
Hashino: Shadows don’t attempt to inflict physical damage on others, but rather change the world by going within people. So, even though the Shadows can eat your soul, it can also return to normal as well. People with Apathy Syndrome are also treated as something that is recognized as likely to exist, but on the other hand, it also implies that those people who haven't decided how to live their lives are most likely synonymous with being dead in some sense.
That is why I decided on the idea that the Shadows would take form by being released through a human being rather than a monster that attacks from another world.
—What was the reason for battles being fought during the Dark Hour, a time that ordinary people are unable to see?
Hashino: There is a time that eventually comes through the course of everyone’s life where they are forced to make a decision. The main characters are in a “moratorium” of sorts that is unique to the people of their age, so they push those worries to the side and procrastinate on said decision.
However, while in battle, that “decision” becomes impossible not to notice, and they then realize that they are forced to make a decision. They see things that they should not be able to see. At first, they behaved in a manner similar to heroes using an ability on a playground of sorts that was exclusive to them. But in fact, it is actually a symbol of what every human being has had to and will eventually have to face. In that sense, we set up the Dark Hour and created the main characters as people who are working in secret.
In other countries, there are times where you may be forced to face the fact that you may have to risk your life to protect something else. For example, being conscripted and forced to join the army. But that isn’t the case in Japan. That’s why I designed this game as a device for young people to experience the fact that there is such a thing as irreplaceable time, and that in the end, there is always a situation in which you have to make a "decision” at the end of it.
That’s why I requested that the image portrayed in the “Dark Hour” to be that of “Death itself.”
“It's like a microcosm of life.
A realistic recreation of school life.”
—Why do you spend most of your time at school during the daytime?
Soejima: It was just a matter of necessity. It's kind of like a microcosm of life, and we wanted to give a realistic experience of the 365 days of school life without taking any shortcuts while doing so.
In contrast to the Dark Hour that strikes at midnight, daytime is the sparkling expression of youth.
The design concept focuses around the idea that the period of youth is one that sparkles (laughs). The other reason is more systemic. Basically, the entire day to day life represented in "Persona" is set up in the form of concepts. The main characters live in a town, but people have died there, and the marks of their deaths remain. In Tartarus, the concept of death is captured through the image of death in order to make it feel real. In daily life, the Social Links are represented in the form of Tarot Cards. So is the Persona itself. It can be difficult because of that, though.
Hashino: When Soejima brought up the Dark Hour setting, I thought it was very well done as a theme because there was a vivid sense of blood reflected within the cold air and atmosphere. It portrayed something that adults usually try not to show to children, and I wondered if it was okay to have something like that. Isn't that red object blood?
Soejima: Well, it is supposed to look like blood.
Hashino: If it were blood itself, it would not be good.
Soejima: It is not blood, but it is something that reminds me of blood. Very few people know how cows and pigs are killed. Everyone eats them and sees them all the time, but they don't know the moment when their lives are ended. It is so hidden that it seems unnatural. I wonder if that kind of thing is hidden because it would seem too harsh if it were expressed too realistically.
Hashino: I saw a Japanese journalist who died in Iraq give a lecture to students in Japan on TV before his death, and at the end of the lecture, he said to the Japanese students, "I want you all to live a long life.” I don't want to experience a situation in which I have to die in order to protect something, but I think everyone, including our generation and the young people living in Japan today, are wondering if it is okay to die someday without having any kind of readiness for such a situation to happen. I think we all feel this way to at least some extent. You can't really understand this in a movie, so we wanted people to be able to experience it in a game. I wanted to give people a chance to think about what kind of people they would like to have around them when they die in real life, or what kind of mood they would have if they could die without any regrets. It's okay if they say, "I know what you mean. You don’t have to tell us.” (laughs).
“For those who want to play through it in depth, this is not the game for you.”
Hashino: "Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne” takes about 70 hours to complete, and I was planning to make this game about the same length. I wanted the people who bought the game to be able to play it to the fullest. But when I measured the time, it unexpectedly took about 100 hours to complete. Moreover, during the test play phase, there were quite a few people who felt compelled to talk to various characters. But you don't have to do that, as long as you play the game normally, you can meet most of the people, and your academic and social parameters can naturally be raised to a certain level as you go along. It may not be suitable for those who want to play through the game in depth (laughs).
—For some reason, there is also a shower scene.
Hashino: That was really just included simply to please people. (laughs). There was honestly no other intention behind it (laughs). At first, that scene was much longer. Sony also told us that it would not be suitable. It was actually much more erotic at first (laughs). I found myself bored by RPGs lately. So I decided to create a scene that would take advantage of the fact that this was a more contemporary drama. In that sense, there was a love hotel. In the planning stages, there was a fish market.
—In the planning stages, there was also a fish market?
Hashino: We cut a lot of things from the final game. Particularly when it came to the dungeons you visit once a month. We realized halfway through that if it was too long, it just wouldn't be interesting. There is a dungeon where you have to chase after tanks, but it was very long at first. The path was also complicated. I thought it would slow down the speed and tempo of the game, so I cut it down and connected the entrances and exits (laughs). I told the designer, "I'll be sure to use it if there’s a next time.” I also cut some of the events featured in the beginning of the game.
At the start of the game, the main character collapses after he summons his Persona for the very first time. But at first, there was a planned event in which Mitsuru and Yukari were watching over him to ensure he did the homework he was given because he was behind in his studies, and we had to make sure that he did it. I had even recorded the voices for this event, but I had to reluctantly cut it from the final game (laughs).
If we were to include that, it would have taken more than an hour to get to the very first battle. I thought that people who played the game thinking it was a typical RPG would be taken aback. Once I decided to approach it with that in mind, I cut the content of the game down drastically (laughs). But even then, I had told the staff that “I’ll use it sometime later.” I can’t make that kind of promise (laughs).
—And then you added a little more.
Hashino: Yes, I was concerned that 365 days, if not done well, would feel empty or boring, so I tested it. We found that it would be unbearable if something did not happen at least once every three days. Also, if you don't know what awaits you ahead, it's not a game. So, we rethought the entire scenario and how the sequence of events unfold, and created additional events. The person in charge of designing the events died a little (laughs). We kept adding more and more.
In the master build of the game, Nyx arrives at the end of January, but that was originally meant to be in February. But it was then finally decided that it was not a good idea to make it too long (laughs).
Actually, speaking of, Nyx was supposed to arrive on February 29, because it’s a leap year. But now I wonder if it was a good idea to skip over that. But, on the other hand, we couldn't include Valentine's Day.
—What would you like to say to the readers who are now playing the game?
Hashino: “Thank you. I am sorry that the play time is much longer than expected (laughs).” I made it so that even people who have never played a “Megaten" game can enjoy it, so please don't judge it solely from the surface, and play it even if it means you have to steal your friend's copy if you get the chance (laughs).
Soejima: It's different from ordinary RPGs in the way it is played, so please enjoy it whether you want to in a relaxed or leisurely manner (laughs). It has a unique feel, so if you are someone who is interested in what kind of game it is, please pick it up.